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New RO:HoS Tank Footage


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#1 Donner & Blitzen

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:23 PM

Let's not turn this into a flame war, it's hard to not admit (pedantic nit-picking aside) that this awesome:

... r_embedded

#2 Hans Ludwig

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:36 AM

Tripwire can now brag that they have done something that not even the tank sims have done. I must fap to this video. BRB
[youtube:3g16ektk]5lYtQHyClAQ[/youtube:3g16ektk]

#3 RustIronCrowe

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:55 AM

Hmm. Very interesting... very interesting indeed.

8)
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#4 Cpl.Guillemette

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:07 AM

That is quite impressive

did i understood right that there will be a loader spot?
All the small slits and moving around in tank is crazy animations!

Too bad you won't be able to bail out! Not giving the kill is the thing you do! Why would you let yourself die

But I gotta say I'm impressed :shock:
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#5 Lamb

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:58 AM

*grudgingly admits its looking quite good*

Seems I may have to have sex with darkest nation while razor sprays us with whipped cream. But thats fine.


#6 Hans Ludwig

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 03:58 AM

That is quite impressive

did i understood right that there will be a loader spot?


Yeah, but it's an AI spot.

#7 Donner & Blitzen

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:31 AM

That is quite impressive

did i understood right that there will be a loader spot?
All the small slits and moving around in tank is crazy animations!

Too bad you won't be able to bail out! Not giving the kill is the thing you do! Why would you let yourself die

But I gotta say I'm impressed :shock:


Yeah, it's disappointing that with all the work they are putting into it, they decide not to let tankers bail out. I understand their reasons, but I think the benefits of bailing outweigh the cons. Although it will depend on what additional measures they take to make sure that being restricted to your tank works well.

#8 Hans Ludwig

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:37 AM

I think that is one of the major things I hate about WWIIONLINE when it came to being a tanker or using any vehicle.

Then again, this tells me you wont have X amount of units just sitting in spawn taking up resources. So you are probably able to do a lot more with creating maps.

#9 CMHQ_Widget

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:33 AM

Yeah, it's disappointing that with all the work they are putting into it, they decide not to let tankers bail out. I understand their reasons, but I think the benefits of bailing outweigh the cons.


Is this a joke ? Lol, they just killed pleasure of tanking. Bailing out is on the tactics used by me while driving by 2 person. Sometimes driver might get out and use binoculars to check whats behind the corner. Sometimes I left tank wchich was almost burned up and changed for another. One argument for it is anoying ppl getting out of tank and killing AT guys behind with SMG.

I don't know their reasons but this is stupid idea, and not realistic at all.
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#10 jergulson

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:59 AM

hrhr, you fellows miss the big thing?

To me its obviously a single person environment meant to take place on a players computer with a few contact points with the server in multi player mode.

The second big thing is the workaround for DH2. A cool thing would be an external panzer grenadier AI controlled riding tank with a bunch of slots for players to ride on too. So the player controlling the tank has the option of taking over the panzer grenadier and moving forward to look and do all that stuff you do dismounted.

The concept being that leaving tank is not particularly realistic, nor is bailing then doing anything but running away (in effect you are KIA once the tank is lost. Running not fighting if at all possible). The realism problem is not being able to talk to accompanying infantry properly from commander hatch. They would generally know what you wanted to see and that could be simulated by taking control of an infantry man that sits on back of tank when not being used to look. Mounted infantry being normal by dh times.

#11 =GG= Mr Moe

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:47 AM

Shells will now travel at their normal speed instead of half speed. That is good. Like the interior animations, and the fact that there will be a delay switching positions inside the tank if the previous player/AI in that spot has been killed.
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#12 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:30 AM

Okay, now that we know how well done AI-crewed tanking is in RO2, could we PLEASE drop the 'it is perfectly realistic for a single person to run an entire tank by themselves' bullsh?t, and have every tank run fully crewed by static AI at all times? RO2 tanks even have the delay when giving orders to AI crew members. I and others have been asking for this for two bloddy years.

We don't use bSprint or Duck while commanding a tank, so make them shift keys to give orders to the driver and bow gunner. If there is a human in that slot, just output a vehicle text command.

bSprint + StrafeLeft/StrafeRight = 'Turn that direction until told to stop' (i.e. the key is let go)
bSprint + MoveForward/MoveBackward = 'Incrementally speed up/slow down'
bSprint + Jump = 'Stop'

Duck + MoveForward = 'Fire when ready'
Duck + MoveBackward = 'Hold fire'

See? Simple, realistic, and no bogus penalty for 'under-crewed' tanks. (Yes, even having to ask for it p?sses me right off.)
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#13 CMHQ_Widget

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:59 AM

Duck + MoveForward = 'Fire when ready'
Duck + MoveBackward = 'Hold fire'

See? Simple, realistic, and no bogus penalty for 'under-crewed' tanks. (Yes, even having to ask for it p?sses me right off.)


This stinks like WoT aimbot lol. I wonder when ppl realize and try some tricks like shooting tank by AIMbot while running full speed. Ofc, they will make something to avoid it, but there will be more tricky tricks time to time. I am not convinved by AI crew.

What is next step ? Have played 1000 hours to have expert AI crew ? So I will be overwheelmed by 15 years old no life kid playing game 12h a day ?

I think tanks will be really f*&!# up in HoS and we should wait for DH later patches to have this working properly.

I don't say I don't like realism, cause I do, but I am sure that making such AI mechanism is another way to abuse something. It also makes bigger gap between weekend warrior players and hardcores. Is using such shortcuts really helping player ? Probably yes, in case you properly type all those while being wake up in the middle of the night.

I can remember playing game Longbow Apache. Game had over 300 commands, all keys on keyboard had function, plus fuction with alt and with ctrl, some with alt+ctrl. It's wicked, don't like it. Plus 400 page manual. Is this game known as first person shooter ?
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#14 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:16 PM

  • The bow gun is an MG, not a sniper rifle. If you are close enough to easily mow down anyone in front of you, then if you have a half-decent commander, he's already been screaming at your driver to stop for the last minute and a half, because you are now well within range of anybody with a 'faust.[/*:m:3v9tx0f4]
  • Anyone good enough to be on a RL bow gun would have been damn good with it - aimbot good - out to its effective range. If you wander out in front of its narrow arc within that, you are dead. Period.[/*:m:3v9tx0f4]
  • No video game can be 100% realistic. It is utterly impossible. The best we can do is to be effectively realistic. For example, there are no HUDs in real life. The few things that show up on the DH HUD represent things that, IRL, would be blindingly obvious, yet can't be easily and/or efficiently represented any other way.[/*:m:3v9tx0f4]
  • Solo tanking, as currently employed, would only have happened after everyone else in the crew was dead. Unless there was a serious problem, tanks rolled out fully crewed. Period. Tanks already have AI loaders and radiomen. Why not finally make them more fully realistic by including the rest of the crew, and have them act as they would in real life?[/*:m:3v9tx0f4]
  • {various exaggerations and complaints I won't both addressing}[/*:m:3v9tx0f4]
  • There are only 4 'extra' things to memorize: that 2 stance keys are used to control 2 other positions, and 2 keys to give commands to the bow gunner.[/*:m:3v9tx0f4]

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#15 CMHQ_Widget

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 01:58 PM

The bow gun is an MG, not a sniper rifle. If you are close enough to easily mow down anyone in front of you, then if you have a half-decent commander, he's already been screaming at your driver to stop for the last minute and a half, because you are now well within range of anybody with a 'faust.


But the difference is that human player on MG might not spot AT soldier, while AI soldier would be more like perfect eye guy. ATs have now problems to hide in bushes and not be spotted. I suppose AI gunner won't have problems about spotting enemy. Joy of playing multiplayer is that human makes mistakes, that's the fun of the game.

No video game can be 100% realistic. It is utterly impossible. The best we can do is to be effectively realistic. For example, there are no HUDs in real life. The few things that show up on the DH HUD represent things that, IRL, would be blindingly obvious, yet can't be easily and/or efficiently represented any other way.


Ofc nothing can be realistic cause lot of physics would need bigger scale of effect. I bet yet there are no computers that could calculate armor hit in scale of atoms in real time, wchich really makes proper behaviour: penetrate or ricochet. I saw gameplay and I think hiding a hud is ok. But don't say never, maybe someday we will have toys to feel the experience from the game, for exaple if magazine is heavy.

Solo tanking, as currently employed, would only have happened after everyone else in the crew was dead. Unless there was a serious problem, tanks rolled out fully crewed. Period. Tanks already have AI loaders and radiomen. Why not finally make them more fully realistic by including the rest of the crew, and have them act as they would in real life?


Radioman in fact wouldn't affect gameplay. Loader ? Maybe, some tanks had commander as loader to reduce crew of the tank. I think those aspects should be avoided. I know it is realistic but AI would be too stupid or too clever, also most of time wouldn't do what you desider. AI hits performance cause better algorythms need more of it. I bet AI behaviour would be simulated at server side. Now I can imagine how many resources does server need to run it with tank maps. If they make it client side, welcome hax.

I think this solution is great for single player but in multiplayer it has big chance to finish as fail.

There are only 4 'extra' things to memorize: that 2 stance keys are used to control 2 other positions, and 2 keys to give commands to the bow gunner.[/list]


To operate tank only. You forget about many options related to infantry. I complain cause now in DH we have some stuff not described. Lot of stuff changed since my instruction for Red Orchestra was printed. So you would have extra buttons and combination of buttons at start of HoS. Now add more after DH2 or other mod release.

Man, it's not exaggeration and complaint. This is not MMORPG like EVE-ONLINE where the goal of the game is to find out how the game works. And it's really irritating when I found accidently after 2 months of playing that there is a key doing something I always want to do. Goal of the game should be quick sqirmish with lot of shooting without board on wall with all the shortcuts. I think DH has now balance about it.
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#16 jergulson

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:19 PM

(urk - wife would kill me if I got involved in last two post discussion - this friday evening is supposedly quality time until I can pour kids into bed:)).

Another neat thing - you will get your 5 points for killing a tank good and proper. Always bugged me that tanks on average seemed worth about the same as a rifleman pointwise.

#17 FuriousBystander

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 05:20 PM

Groovy :mrgreen:

Although the animations for moving around the tank made me get vertigo and almost vomit :shock:


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#18 Hans Ludwig

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:49 PM

I have to agree with widget on the whole bots thing.

What If I decide to park my tank in an area and wait to ambush, will my bot gunner automatically start firing at anything he sees? We all know bots are either (1) extremely stupid or (2) have bionic senses (Arma2).

I guess we will have to wait to play the beta before we start speculating.

#19 Razorneck

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:33 PM

I reckon you can set them to 'hold fire' or 'engage' whenever you wish.
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#20 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:39 PM

  • I guess the main problem is a matter of miscommunication. When I say 'static AI', I don't mean the current bots, but the ones that are in the video; those don't make any moves of their own, but wait until given an order, then, after a small delay, carry it out. The only 'active AI' would be the bow MG gunner, and, even then, only when ordered to open fire. I wouldn't permit one to fire the main gun or coax MG.[/*:m:4bdc583v]
  • Why would anyone assume that the devs would introduce a new feature that is worse than the old one, or set bots/AI so that they so good that they are superhuman? Come on, guys, give them (and us testers who would nail them to the wall if they tried) at least a little bit of credit for having a few functioning braincells.[/*:m:4bdc583v]
  • As for giving solo tankers an 'unfair advantage', ummm...what?
    [list=A:4bdc583v]
  • When I drive, my head is out of the hatch, constantly looking around for hostiles. If I see one, I warn the commander, then, because I know which way the main gun is pointing, will instantly turn the tank so that the gun is pointing straight at the target, if that is the best thing to do. I can also steer very precisely between obstacles. An AI driver (i.e. the commander steering with delays) just can't do any of that.[/*:m:4bdc583v]
  • A human bow gunner not only can engage and/or suppression targets well beyond effective range, and can anticipate an enemy's movement, starting to fire even before he leaves cover, but can request the driver to turn to a particular heading to be more effective. An AI can only fire at enemies within effective range.[/*:m:4bdc583v]
All in all, a human crewed tank would still enjoy a large advantage over an AI crewed one. Implementing AI crews would simply stop soloing from being as unrealistic and frustrating as it currently is.[/*:m:4bdc583v][/list:o:4bdc583v]
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