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New tanks: strengths and weakness' tutorial


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#1 Blue Lightning

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:17 AM

I'm not sure it qualifies as a pro tutorial :roll: but here is my shot at it anyway. :P (updated to include all new vehicles)


Sherman M4A3E2 "Jumbo"
Nation: USA

Strengths: Sloped hull armor is doubled in thickness; turret armor increased to 178mm thickness. Cannot be penetrated frontally by most tank guns at battle ranges.

Weakness: Speed reduced to 22 KPH because of the added weight. Main gun is only a 75mm L/40 cannon. About 100 converted in 1945 to the 76mm L/52 gun which is better against other tanks. Both models available in DH.

Best strategy: To slowly advance and support infantry, or can be used in defensive roles. The 76mm version is good tank hunter.



SdKfz 138 Ausf. M "Marder" III
Nation: Germany

Strengths: Good L/48 75mm cannon - tank built on the very skinny Czech 38t chassis, and as a result, camouflages very well. Much like an AT gun on tracks. - Two drivers hatches for excellent vision facilities. Very fast reload.

Weakness: No turret plus paper-thin armor

Best strategy: To be used defensively in camouflage positions. Vehicle can be used offensively as well, but because of weak armor, great care is to be taken.



PanzerJager VI B "Jagdtiger"
Nation: Germany

Strengths: Frontal armor cannot be penetrated by any gun at any range. Main gun is a 128mm L/55 cannon which can kill any tank with just an HE round.

Weakness: No turret plus slow speed (22 KPH) = very vulnerable sides. Two piece round causes slow loading, hence a slow rate of fire.

Best strategy: To be used in defense, and can be used out in the open since it's frontal armor cannot be penetrated. Offensive use is very risky and should only be done slowly, or with team help.



*GMC M18 "Hellcat"
Nation: USA

Strengths: WWII's fastest tank -Extreme speed; on flats near 65 KPH. Great gun depression for hull down action.

Weakness: 76mm L/52 gun is high velocity and a good gun, but has a high shatter rate except for limited HVAP rounds - weak armor

Best strategy: To be used offensively due to it's great speed, for flanking actions and combined with hull down abilities for "shoot and scoot" tactics.

*GMC stands for "Gun Mounted Carrier" and has nothing to do with the truck builders. In fact the Hellcat was built by Buick.




Jagdpanzer IV
Nation: Germany

Strengths: Very good 75mm L/70 main gun (Panther cannon); Some models had the good (but less powerful) 75mm L/48 gun - both models availible in DH. Sloped frontal armor of this tank hunter is impenetrable except at the closest of ranges.. Very low silhouette which is dangerous to allied tanks.

Weakness: No turret, sides very vulnerable. Poor drivers view

Best strategy: A defensive role makes this hard-to-see tank hunter a real killer. As with any tank hunter, the lack of a turret and poor drivers view makes offensive thrusts dangerous. However they can be made if they are made slowly, and if a gunner is in the tank with the driver and the gunner can look for enimies.


Sturmhaubitze "StuH" 42 Ausf G.
Nation: Germany

Strengths: Basically a StuG but with an awesome 105mm L/28 cannon, good for firing a powerful HE round. Even the medium velocity AP round can do some damage.

Weakness: It has no turret and sides are weak. Poor drivers view

Best stratagy: To be used in defense or even offense (carefully though) against infantry.



SdKfz 234/2 “Puma”
Nation: Germany

Strengths: Fast armored all-terrain wheeled vehicle that carries a 20mm cannon for good rapid fire HE action.

Weakness: 20mm cannon's AP round cannot penetrate much. Has to be reloaded after only a few seconds of fire.

Best Strategy: Bombardment of towns and infantry strongholds (from a distance) with HE - Forward recon missions



SdKfz 234/1 Armored Car
Nation: Germany

Strengths: Fast eight wheeled vehicle that carries a good 50mm gun. Fast on turns

Weakness: Fairly light armor

Best strategy: Offensive guerrilla action and recon missions


M-8 "Greyhound"
Nation: USA

Strengths: Fast armored six wheeled vehicle, quick turning

Weakness: Main gun is only a 37mm cannon - light armor

Best strategy: Offensive guerrilla missions - recon missions



GMC two and a half ton truck
Nation: USA

Strengths: Decent transportation / carries ammo

Weakness: Speed only about 35 KPH

Best strategy: Stay out of harms way



Discuss. :)

#2 Basnett

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 03:58 AM

What about the 234/1 and 234/2? :)

Good observations though.

#3 Silverkite

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 11:21 AM

Panther as it was before and as is right now

grab a pounder and fire on the red circles area see that in the marked areas there is nothing that will allow a one shot kill,something is still wrong

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On the sponson there is the fuel tank,so I think placing a shot there it will set the tank on fire,sadly it only happens if you are lucky with the 76 round,with the pounder a single shot there is enough to send it on the Bbzing's heaven.

On the frontal wheels a single shot fired there by a 76 sometimes it will kill the Panther,same thing it will happens with the pounder,but there is nothing there to blew it,you will be able to kill the driver or kill his transmission but destroy it nope

#4 Pantokrator

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 12:42 PM

How about old tanks after update?
Sherman firefly:
strength: can resist numerous frontal and side penetrations from 75mm (I've seen 4-5, there are claims of 6 and it kept going) while still remaining 100% operative + great cannon, good speed
weakness: weak armor?

Pz IV:
Strength: good cannon with nice optics - penetrates easily, too bad the damage is somehow too little to reliably kill shermans.
Weakness: blows up when hit and penetrated on the 1st shot, even though the 17 pounder does not have an explosive filler, so I don't really get, what's the source of this catastrophic damage, that happens nearly every time

Just an example. I remember cromwell taking 6 shots before exploding (to the turret side and hull side) before update. I wonder, if it's still so screwed up.

#5 pizdetzvsemu

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 10:51 PM

How about old tanks after update?
Sherman firefly:
strength: can resist numerous frontal and side penetrations from 75mm (I've seen 4-5, there are claims of 6 and it kept going) while still remaining 100% operative + great cannon, good speed
weakness: weak armor?

Pz IV:
Strength: good cannon with nice optics - penetrates easily, too bad the damage is somehow too little to reliably kill shermans.
Weakness: blows up when hit and penetrated on the 1st shot, even though the 17 pounder does not have an explosive filler, so I don't really get, what's the source of this catastrophic damage, that happens nearly every time

Just an example. I remember cromwell taking 6 shots before exploding (to the turret side and hull side) before update. I wonder, if it's still so screwed up.


I can tell you with 100% certainty that in ALL the time I've played on allies, I have never survived more than 2 shots in a tank. Ever. The first hit is almost always catastrophic as well, either taking out the engine or starting a fire. Anything like you're describing is definitely due to lag.

#6 Blue Lightning

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:52 AM

Ok guys I updated it to include the light armored vehicles too. What ya think? :D

#7 Atkins

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 02:19 PM

I can tell you with 100% certainty that in ALL the time I've played on allies, I have never survived more than 2 shots in a tank. Ever. The first hit is almost always catastrophic as well, either taking out the engine or starting a fire. Anything like you're describing is definitely due to lag.


Perhaps the new update is a bit more demanding on the server side or the servers have not yet found good configs for the new update cos now it seem that lag related stuff appears more often; tanks that are not facing you suddenly shoot you, HTs /AC taking several shots etc...

#8 Blue Lightning

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 06:53 PM

Ok, in the OP I also added a few tanks that I missed. Do I have it all covered or am I still missing something?

#9 pizdetzvsemu

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 07:18 PM

I can tell you with 100% certainty that in ALL the time I've played on allies, I have never survived more than 2 shots in a tank. Ever. The first hit is almost always catastrophic as well, either taking out the engine or starting a fire. Anything like you're describing is definitely due to lag.


Perhaps the new update is a bit more demanding on the server side or the servers have not yet found good configs for the new update cos now it seem that lag related stuff appears more often; tanks that are not facing you suddenly shoot you, HTs /AC taking several shots etc...


agreed. I have to eat my words now as well, playing VIEUX about an hour ago, my firefly was hit twice for no damage. Also having a lot of problems where a tanks gun isn't pointing at me, but it shoots me as if it was. It usually seems like the turret/gun is about 30 degrees off. Frustrating, because you think you're going to get off a second shot before the enemy has eyes on you, but then a shell comes out of the corner of the turret..

#10 pizdetzvsemu

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:12 PM

Do I have it all covered or am I still missing something?


How to spell 'guerrilla'

#11 Blue Lightning

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Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:41 PM

Actually when I said "gorilla action"...I litterally meant firing at wild gorilla! For instance, the Puma firing it's 20mm main gun at packs of dangerous mountain gorilla (well known for living in the French hedgerows).

Ok, point taken. :mrgreen:

#12 wokelly

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 05:30 PM

Weakness: blows up when hit and penetrated on the 1st shot, even though the 17 pounder does not have an explosive filler, so I don't really get, what's the source of this catastrophic damage, that happens nearly every time


HE filler is not needed to blow up tanks. In fact the HE filler in AP shells is really quite minor, enough to break the shell up into a few large chunks to add to the shrapnel effect when a shell penetrates. The HE filler is not at all enough to cause a tank to blow up, that's Hollywood stuff.
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#13 TT33

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Posted 13 May 2011 - 05:47 PM

that's Hollywood stuff.


perhaps, I dont watch enough movies.- :mrgreen:

gar83IX.gif


#14 Schneller

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 12:43 AM

Good observations. Very reasonable analysis.

I consider visibility from the tank to be a bigger factor that you seemed to rate it.

For example, I think the Marder is quite good and agile and you can easlity see around you.

The StuG, StuH, JP IV, etc are less fragile but are easier to kill when they work close to the front line because of their poor situational awareness.

Other than that OPINION, I say thanks for the post.
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Wilsonam wrote: But, as someone said - perhaps just a touch too anal for a game

WUK: What! Thats impossible! Blasphemie!

#15 Blue Lightning

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 03:34 AM

Thanks! And yes, I agree about visability. My OP is really more of a "pro's and con's" thing, meant to give a quick overview of each vehicle, without going into too much detail. :wink: But I will edit the OP now :P

#16 Blue Lightning

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 07:50 PM

I editied yet again (and again etc) and added some more info.

#17 Schneller

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 11:39 PM

Yes, since on so many maps there are areas where Infantry can get quite close to the tanker, he is clearly responsible for defending himself and not solely depending on teamates to watch out for him.

The primary method of protection for tankers remains: He who see's the enemy first, usually gets the first shot and that usually leads to victory.

Letting people see you while you remain IGNORANT of the threat is bad odds for survival.

From rifle/sniper fire when the tanker is out of his hatch to the deadly rocket weapons, the tanker MUST be able to quickly and easily check his exposure to close in threats as often as he can. Some vehicles offer much better capabilities in this regard.
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Wilsonam wrote: But, as someone said - perhaps just a touch too anal for a game

WUK: What! Thats impossible! Blasphemie!

#18 Wuk

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 03:54 AM

Well it has a reason why most of the Allied tanks have been lost to anti tank guns AND infantry attacks well probably as well because the Germans had a lot more of those weapons compared to tanks. Particularly in dense areas like France with all the forests and bushes or cities the casualties would be for both sides high with armor. This counts for the east just as it does for the west. The Russians for example lost alone in the area of Berlin countless of armor. Till the point where they changed their tactics. They would get infantry on the left and right side of the tanks and the approaching tanks would separate their fire. One of the tanks would only fire at the cellars. The other to the sides or the windows. And this somewhat reduced the casualties a bit. But before that they would always loose the armor to those hidding soldiers with their panzerfaust shooting from every hole or window and cellar.

#19 pizdetzvsemu

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 12:14 AM

Allied tank destroyers:

m10 'wolverine'
Advantages: 76mm gun, good situational awareness due to open turret
disadvantages: slow chassis, very slow turret, negligible armor, commander is extremely vulnerable to gunfire, no machinegun

best used: Find a position with cover(a stand of trees, bushes, base of a hill) .5-1km to the flank of the front line objective, shut off engine and knock out vehicles that have engaged targets within the objective with flank shots. Never attempt a 'slugging match', only engage targets that are unaware to your presence or preoccupied with others: you shouldn't engage anything that will be able to react to you before you can fire a second shot. Your best bet is to try and disable the enemy with your first shot by hitting the turret. Despite your turret, it's often best to aim using the entire vehicle, especially if a fast soft target is attempting to evade you: point the vehicle ahead of where the target will be and wait for them to drive into your crosshairs.

Engage soft vehicles(kubel, opel, recon, HT) with HE, your turret traverse is slow enough that these vehicles can stay out of your aimpoint, so splash damage is your friend.

The m-10 'Achilles' is the same exact vehicle, with the same weaknesses, except it is armed with the dramatically more effective 17lb anti tank gun. You can fight anything up to the level of a pz4/stug frontally with success as long as you get the first shot, possibly even the panther if you can reliably hit his vulnerable turret. Heavy and super heavy tanks can be reliably destroyed from the side at long ranges, frontally in rare cases with APDS ammunition, although due to its uneven performance and unreliable accuracy, this should only be done in emergencies.

m36 jackson; another open topped TD based on the sherman chassis, armed with a 90mm gun with comparable performance to the 17lb, including the use of HVAP ammunition, less powerful but more reliable than APDS. A powered turret means this vehicle can be used more offensively than the others. The lack of a machinegun and limited supply of HE ammunition means you should still steer well clear of urban areas, trenches or other defensive works that could contain infantry.

I am going to go outside and try to convince myself i'm not an irredeemable nerd now.

#20 Masterson

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 05:07 AM

I don't think the m10/Achill/m36 have a slow speed. They are faster than the Sherman.

Also, the Achilles can fight a Tiger head on. I have actually had more success with shots to the front, given that they are likely to hit a critical part of the Tiger.

The other day I fired a APDS at 1000 meters and hit a JPanther (frontally-it caught fire). Quite satisfying.
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