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Suppression effect; make it nice!


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#1 Novusordo

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 12:22 PM

One thing I utterly despise about RO2/RS and most other game that even bother to feature a visual suppression effect is that they think making the screen go red/grey/black and&white is perfectly OK however this is the cheapest, most digustingly lazy fucking foulest design feature in gaming history. FACT.

Will FE feature a NICE looking suppression effect, one that is well thought-out, and looks great to the point where you might find yourself deliberately causing a situation where you'll be suppressed, just to witness such a nicely designed, well though-out sexy looking effect and not some fucking disgusting dumb cheap ass lazy grey/red/whatever fade effect all over the screen?

RO2 as mentioned features this shitty cheap & nasty visual effect and combined with it's utterly pathetic artillery explosion sounds that sound like someone taking deep breathes in to a microphone (no joke) makes for an experience so god forsakingly boring and shit that there are no words to describe it adequately.


Don't forget the audio effects, too... such as momentary high-pitched tinnitus as supersonic rounds scrape past your ear holes, maybe some desperate heavy breathing and fearful signs from your avatar to go along with it and really fucking immerse we the players and get us fucking shitting ourselves in our chairs with fear of being shot in-game.

#2 Gilatar

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 02:53 PM

I'd love it if supression could somehow decrease your peripheral vision. That way you could actually run around and do stuff instead of getting completely pinned down, but you'd be at risk to getting attacked from the sides.

#3 Nightingale

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:56 PM

You say you are really unhappy with how all FPSes implement their suppression systems, but I'm not really sure what kind of alternatives you would prefer. At the end of the day, the game is played through a screen. The game can only use audio-visual aids to convey to the player that the soldier is scared. I think the way RO2 and PR does it works very well, even if it is not necessarily "realistic".

#4 Novusordo

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:29 AM

You say you are really unhappy with how all FPSes implement their suppression systems, but I'm not really sure what kind of alternatives you would prefer. At the end of the day, the game is played through a screen. The game can only use audio-visual aids to convey to the player that the soldier is scared. I think the way RO2 and PR does it works very well, even if it is not necessarily "realistic".


Just a better looking and sounding supression system. One that relies on audio indicators more than visual cues.

If they make the incoming bullets sound as powerful and scary as possible then that by itself would be a major part of the suppression system.

Added to that some high-pitched momentary stereo tinnitus (like 1 or 2 seconds) from when supersonic bullets pass very close to your ears.

Added to that a shaky camera effect that makes accurate sighting, let alone aiming a weapon, difficult.

Added to that, simply for cosmetic/cool/immersive factor, some sort of breathing/sigh sounds from your character to convey fear.

basically I want a supression system that doesn't overwhelm the entire screen like RO2 does... one that is works as a suppression system should, yet is subtly conveyed using intelligently designed audio and visual cues and not some foul red/grey screen fade effect like RO2 did.

#5 DavidL.Roth

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:48 AM

I do like PR and RO2 suppression.

But how about not making the visual blur so big when only a gunshots passes by?
In RO2 it is kinda annoying that aiming is difficult and it jumps all over the place when under fire.
But when thinking about it, it is kinda realistic since I bet humanbeing flinches when bullet passes you nearby.
Explosions should blur out the view drastically and make playing flinch even more.

#6 Pepi

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:16 PM

RO2 suppression system is aesthetically horrible and truth be told, lack of colors doesn't exactly decrease your ability to aim so I really don't know why they've added it on top of aim flinching and blurry vision.

#7 morticore

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:58 PM

I'd love it if supression could somehow decrease your peripheral vision. That way you could actually run around and do stuff instead of getting completely pinned down, but you'd be at risk to getting attacked from the sides.


I like this idea, especially with loud and well made sounds (bullet cracks and whizzes, deep breaths)
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#8 DeathmachinePT

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:21 PM

I hate the Darkest hour screen blur and auto move of your iron sights at least to the current extend... I do like the RO 2 white/black screen it's actually more realistic since under stress or intense focus your brain stops rendering colors I would also add a more blur image on your peripheral vision while keep the center very focus.

If the sound is well made you as a player should be effect by it like moving your mouse too fast and failing to hit, I agree the RO2 sounds are worst than RO :/ but there are soldiers that underfire don't get effect by bullets hitting near them and are more focus on actually shooting the gun.

I remember playing WW2ol for the first time and the gun sounds made me skittish and I was missing maybe soldiers because I couldn't control my weapon properly especially when the sound of weapons fired when I wasn't expecting.


As mention above blur vision can't be done in 2D screen it's cheap and unrealistic plus it really hurts or is too uncomfortable for my vision more than using 3D glasses in movies and the displacement of iron sights should be minor.

#9 Father Ted

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

In RO2 it is kinda annoying that aiming is difficult and it jumps all over the place when under fire.
But when thinking about it, it is kinda realistic since I bet humanbeing flinches when bullet passes you nearby.


I think that spoiling your aim is the most important part of any suppression effects, from a game-play perspective. Most shots were not fired at a human target (as mostly happens in games) but at where those humans might be. Get enough bullets in that area and those humans won't want to expose themselves to shoot back, thus enabling some of your own side to move without getting shot at. Obvious, I know, but the point is that in games we can't make people keep their heads down by making them scared. Therefore if suppressing fire is to work, some other mechanic has to be used. If the game destroys the player's ability to shoot accurately when under fire, then suppressing fire has some value.

It may be irritating to have your aim judder about the screen, but I think that irritation does in game what fear does IRL.

#10 Lamb

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:37 PM

I think that spoiling your aim is the most important part of any suppression effects, from a game-play perspective. Most shots were not fired at a human target (as mostly happens in games) but at where those humans might be. Get enough bullets in that area and those humans won't want to expose themselves to shoot back, thus enabling some of your own side to move without getting shot at. Obvious, I know, but the point is that in games we can't make people keep their heads down by making them scared. Therefore if suppressing fire is to work, some other mechanic has to be used. If the game destroys the player's ability to shoot accurately when under fire, then suppressing fire has some value.

It may be irritating to have your aim judder about the screen, but I think that irritation does in game what fear does IRL.


Agreed Completely

Seems I may have to have sex with darkest nation while razor sprays us with whipped cream. But thats fine.


#11 jefaus

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:13 AM

Something I have suggested in the past, is that suppresion should also reduce the rate of stamina recovery. If you have a bucketload of bullets being poured into your airspace, you aren't going to be
breathing normally thanks to a combination of fear and adrenaline. This would make alot of sense as soldiers would run shorter distances between cover as they moved closer towards the enemy.

When you think of suppression, it is supposed to "Fix" an enemy to a location so it is easier for your own soldiers to maneuver closer to "F^#@" them.

Yep... that is the role of infantry... to "Find", "Fix" and "F^#@" the enemy.
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For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought. - B.H. Liddell Hart

#12 Cpl.Guillemette

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:36 AM

What about heavy weapon supression, shouldn't it be different?
By heavy weapon, I'm talking High Explosive and Armor Piercing.
Should the At gun, HT, tank, armored car, Jeep/kubel?, crew be supressed too?
And how?
How should Infantry react to mortar rounds,Artillery or any HE rounds in term of supression?
Should it have a blast radius around that cause supression but doesn't kill?
Anglo-canadian-Polish operation relied a lot on Arty HE to supress the ennemy, especially with the creeping barrage.


About the weapon, I think you need some visual effect, but it needs to be not too heavy, but enough to distract you a bit so you can't pixel hunt straight up.«
This way you have better firefights because it is a realistic behavior.
As for sound... everyone agree to have the best effect as possible. ;)
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#13 Novusordo

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:36 AM

How should Infantry react to mortar rounds,Artillery or any HE rounds in term of supression?
Should it have a blast radio around that cause supression but doesn't kill?


Check this out http://forums.jackbo...-have-an-effect

#14 Cpl.Guillemette

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

Yeah, but what about HE suppression, not HE damage.
HE does suppress you too....
Also, when you get hit by multiple AP rounds, should you get suppress too?
For example, in a panther, you get multiple hit on your front armor, should the crew get affected?
Or in a HT, AT weapon, you get pummeled by small weapon fire, whould you get supress?
Should the suppression be different?

How should it work?
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#15 Lamb

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:38 PM

Also, when you get hit by multiple AP rounds, should you get suppress too?
For example, in a panther, you get multiple hit on your front armor, should the crew get affected?


That's a great Point, think some Suppression for vehicle Crews is also a must based on this.

Seems I may have to have sex with darkest nation while razor sprays us with whipped cream. But thats fine.


#16 Morbo513

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 09:11 AM

I think that spoiling your aim is the most important part of any suppression effects, from a game-play perspective. Most shots were not fired at a human target (as mostly happens in games) but at where those humans might be. Get enough bullets in that area and those humans won't want to expose themselves to shoot back, thus enabling some of your own side to move without getting shot at. Obvious, I know, but the point is that in games we can't make people keep their heads down by making them scared. Therefore if suppressing fire is to work, some other mechanic has to be used. If the game destroys the player's ability to shoot accurately when under fire, then suppressing fire has some value.

It may be irritating to have your aim judder about the screen, but I think that irritation does in game what fear does IRL.

I'm so glad someone said this before I did. There's a long, long thread going on over at the Squad forums about suppression.
On restricting movement, I think your aim being thrown off is penalty enough as it is. You move at your own risk, but if you need to retreat or otherwise reposition to regain the advantage in a firefight, you need to be able to do it otherwise unhindered - After all, all you can pretty much do is suppress the enemy back after doing so.

There's a thread of similar discussion going on over at the Squad forums, echoing a lot of what you guys have already said - http://joinsquad.net...-have-it-wrong/

#17 Theel

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:39 PM

I think the sudden "jerk" in aiming is a must. I also like the idea of blur and maybe slightly more blur on the edges of screen. The desaturation is bad, the blur alone is enough, I find that it too greatly breaks immersion when the color display changes.

Everything about suppression effects are arguable, this is why it's so easily opinionated. It is possible to train yourself not to be affected, but the truth is the average soldier wouldn't be. And DH/FE isn't about the special forces, it's about the common soldier. Also we want suppression to actually be effective as it is in RL, thus players need to accept what it's like on the other end of it.

One thing to advance the system (at least try in testing), would be to have it so if you are suppressed with enough intensity and duration you become disoriented. Basically shaky (harder to aim), heavy breathing, and inconsistent mouse look. This would only last a few moments, like 5-10 seconds and would require a lot of suppression for a reasonable duration. But the point is the suppression will create a more persistent affect on the receiver, reducing the "instant" recovery from suppression, which is IMO destroys much of suppression's effectiveness.
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#18 Father Ted

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 10:11 PM

I think the sudden "jerk" in aiming is a must. I also like the idea of blur and maybe slightly more blur on the edges of screen. The desaturation is bad, the blur alone is enough, I find that it too greatly breaks immersion when the color display changes.

Everything about suppression effects are arguable, this is why it's so easily opinionated. It is possible to train yourself not to be affected, but the truth is the average soldier wouldn't be. And DH/FE isn't about the special forces, it's about the common soldier. Also we want suppression to actually be effective as it is in RL, thus players need to accept what it's like on the other end of it.

One thing to advance the system (at least try in testing), would be to have it so if you are suppressed with enough intensity and duration you become disoriented. Basically shaky (harder to aim), heavy breathing, and inconsistent mouse look. This would only last a few moments, like 5-10 seconds and would require a lot of suppression for a reasonable duration. But the point is the suppression will create a more persistent affect on the receiver, reducing the "instant" recovery from suppression, which is IMO destroys much of suppression's effectiveness.


To simplify it, the "jerk" is all you really need (plus some badass sound effects) If the avatar flinches each time a projectile (or perhaps blast-wave?) passes near enough then that encourages players to lay enough fire on enemy positions to make the target(s) jerk so much that they can't shoot back. One person firing a K98 may not make things too difficult, but a couple of MG42s ought to make return fire impossible. I agree that this mechanic does allow for instant recovery, but it is relatively simple. I'm not fussed what form the visual effect takes, though I agree that he desaturation thing takes you out of the game and into a movie.

@Morbo - had a quick gander at the Squad thread : some people really don't seem to get the point!

#19 Gyps

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 05:02 PM

I have to say I'm not keen on things jerking about at random, the DH system wasn't to bad

can understand some kind of concussion effect from a tank or field gun / grenade but your sights flying about at random just because a bullets quite close in non-sensible, where you jump up into the open only to find some random thing makes whether you hit someone or not beyond your control does seem in the sprit of a first person thing to me

if we really have to have it needs to be subtly done not keen on desaturation either but some kind of blurring would be preferable to sights jumping all over the place

#20 Theel

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:21 PM

The "jumping" is an instinctive reaction to a bullet snap/swish. It happens so fast and you can't see it, so the sound makes you jump scare. Like I said you can be trained to not react, but when in the moment and adrenaline takes over a lot of training (even special forces) will resort back to instinct.

The blur makes no realistic sense, except to simulate several things at once. When being shot at, debris will fly up and around hitting you in the face. When under certain heavy stresses, your brain may not concentrate on sight so well. Also it sort of simulates the desire to take cover and live. As in game the blur will often mean danger, you are about to die unless you take cover. After playing enough, the blur will become a trigger to the habit of taking cover.

Without the sight jumping from bullet cracks, suppression is worthless. No blur is gonna stop me from returning accurate fire on an enemy. So without the sights jumping, might as well just not have any other suppression effects.
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