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Suppression effect; make it nice!


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#21 FuriousBystander

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:18 PM

"The purpose of suppression is to stop or prevent the enemy from observing, shooting, moving or carrying out other military tasks that interfere (or could interfere) with the activities of friendly forces. An important feature of suppressive fire is that it is only effective while it lasts and that it has sufficient intensity."

"The primary intended effect of suppressive fire is psychological. Rather than directly trying to kill enemy soldiers, it makes the enemy soldiers feel unable to safely perform any actions other than seeking cover. Colloquially, this goal is expressed as "it makes them keep their heads down" or "it keeps them pinned down".

The suppression effect in DH is, IMHO, highly proficient and very successful in achieving these real life ends. Relying on visual or audio effects alone is not going to achieve the intended purpose. There have to be "physical" components to this as well in order to mimic the autonomic psychological responses to being in danger and under fire. You are not a robot.


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#22 MeFirst

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:04 PM

To me the way DH is attempting to handle those effects goes in the right direction.

#23 Father Ted

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 10:38 PM

I have to say I'm not keen on things jerking about at random, the DH system wasn't to bad

can understand some kind of concussion effect from a tank or field gun / grenade but your sights flying about at random just because a bullets quite close in non-sensible, where you jump up into the open only to find some random thing makes whether you hit someone or not beyond your control does seem in the sprit of a first person thing to me

if we really have to have it needs to be subtly done not keen on desaturation either but some kind of blurring would be preferable to sights jumping all over the place


I think there are two different issues with suppression:

1) How to portray the aural, kinetic and visual effects of projectiles passing close to the player

2) How to make suppressing fire in a game do what it does IRL - ie stop those being suppressed from shooting back

Number 2 is what I'm interested in. I agree that the "jerking" may not be realistic and also irritating, but it would hopefully stop people bothering to try to shoot back - thus they would be "suppressed". You want to shoot back? Well then get out from where are and find some place else to do so. IRL people would be forced to retreat because they fear for their lives. In a game we have to make then retreat because staying under fire makes trying to play the game too irritating.

Edited by Father Ted, 12 November 2014 - 07:01 PM.


#24 Dietrich Landrik

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 11:49 PM

I'd like to hear the buzzing, cracking, and whistling sounds of fire and shrapnel as they do in real life.

I think DH's suppression is great.
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#25 MeFirst

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:10 AM

Its certainly not perfect, but the direction is a good one to me

I disagree that the main intend behind suppression is psychological. You shoot at a enemy position to prevent them from two things, which are moving away from that position and directly shooting from their position. If they try to do this they are in a situation where it is likely to get hit. So in the end it is a fair mix of physical and psychological pressure you put on a enemy. Of course I am not a soldier, or have never been under gunfire but I think the way DH handles it is working very well in the game. When a bullet is hitting near you, I guess its pretty normal that you twitch for a moment (which is a reflex). To me this is much better as fading out colors, hearing heartbeat sounds and BLURRY SCREEN, SO REAL!

#26 Sgt.Elly {1st ID}

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 07:36 AM

I really love the suppression effects in Insurgency, first FPS game I've played that actually makes me duck for cover when I'm getting fired at. The auditory and visual effects are really nice, lots of dust and debris from impacting bullets. The impact sounds are really well done as well, very snappy.

#27 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 10:31 PM

(Well, it's not even a year old, so necroing it isn't a sin. :grin: )

 

I think that we all agree that suppression is vital in a realistic shooter, and should be as realistic as is possible in effect.  To that end, I suggest the following:

  1. All effects should be analog in nature, not digital.  (Case in point: in DH1, when I am being suppressed by an SMG from a distance, I know that all I have to do is wait until he runs out of ammo, then immediately pop him with my rifle.  The suppression effect is digital, in that, the instant the firing stops, so does the suppression effect, which just isn't realistic, and so doesn't really give me any reason to pull back into cover, as the chance that he could actually hit me is very low.)
  2. As suppression continues, 'stress' should build up, with a number of effects, like increased mouse acceleration, hands shaking, and loss of stamina.
  3. If something life threatening happens, you should automatically 'flinch' away from it.  The higher your stress (and thus the more the perceived danger), the greater the flinch.
  4. Audio cues should be used to enhance the proper 'feeling'.  For example, the volume of bullets flying past you can be subtly increased, as will as increased and louder gasps, heavy breathing, swearing, and even crying when stress has built up enough.
  5. While I'm not sure how well it works in practice, a number of games use gradient blurs, so that only the center of your is perfectly clear, with things becoming blurrier and blurrier towards the edge of the screen.  (Definitely something that would have to be analog, increasing as stress rises.)
  6. Stress would decrease over time, depending on what highest point was reached.  For example, if you ended up 100% stressed, it might take 30 seconds or more to calm completely down.
  7. If a morale system is created, then, for example, having two of the highest rated players right beside you, along with your Sgt., squad leader, and five squad members would reduce stress increase substantially, as well as allowing you to calm down much faster.

 

This kind of system should result in players quickly realizing that they need to avoid suppression at all costs, as it drastically increases playing difficulty in the short term  It should also encourage players to find other ways to deal with a situation.  If the morale system gets used, it would also encourage players to team up, as that would give them a serious edge in tense situations.


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#28 _Nambu

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:40 PM

Just putting it here...

 

8. Animations reflecting the stress status of the player.


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#29 SolitarioSoldat

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 02:06 AM

RO2 suppression is broken, you can be in a underground tunnel capping, people fighting above you, pullets passing above you and ground is separating you and incoming bullets and I get so suppressed that not only everything blurs but my gun shakes like crazy... HOW in the F*** can that be possible when I'm inside the tunnel, under the damn fight.... I have posted there about this issue, meh no fix....



#30 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 05:56 PM

RO2 suppression is broken, you can be in a underground tunnel capping, people fighting above you, pullets passing above you and ground is separating you and incoming bullets and I get so suppressed that not only everything blurs but my gun shakes like crazy... HOW in the F*** can that be possible when I'm inside the tunnel, under the damn fight.... I have posted there about this issue, meh no fix....

That is a really important consideration.  There would be a lot less stress from things happening on the far side of hard cover, though enough the sound would cause at least a little.  (Rounds aimed at you that are stopped by the cover you are behind would still be fairly stressful.)


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#31 Nixod321

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 05:03 AM

How about (slightly?) increased sprint speed when under suppression? After all, when there's a million bullets whizzing past you're going to be running for your life. It would also make retreat seem more appealing or possible.


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#32 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 13 October 2015 - 05:16 PM

How about (slightly?) increased sprint speed when under suppression? After all, when there's a million bullets whizzing past you're going to be running for your life. It would also make retreat seem more appealing or possible.

Great idea!  Even better, make it more difficult to move towards suppression, and easier to move away. (i..e. affecting indirect variables like speed, stamina, stress, etc.)


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