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#1 Kashash

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 10:59 AM

It is very quiet, not sure if it's even still work in progress because of the lack of activity that other forums normally teem with but anyway I was just wondering...

Is something of a movable spawn system possible?

DH spawn system often rushed players into the next cap and was flawed due to often causing mayhem after the new spawn with enemy around you still there or other players getting caught up too far back.

A lot of times the players couldn't cap one objective for too long because mostly players just mindlessly run into the capzone, while the enemy was just something of an incidental obstacle to get rid off on the way to the cap zone and to be honest that's not how it should be.

It often caused being "stuck" at one objectives like for example on Hill-400 where players can't cap one objective even for the entire battle because they desperately are trying to run in a suicidal fashion in order to get to the capzone. That is as tedious as it gets.

FE spawn system should be made into more dynamic style where the spawns are constantly moving according to the casualties you inflict on the enemy. The more men you lose the further back the spawn shifts back or moves forward vice versa. It makes sense to be dependent on the situation of the battle because if you want to move forward you need to kill the enemy.

Having spawns NOT dependent on the objectives but rather constantly moving as the casualties are taken on the toll will prevent maps being rushed. Players will take the time and form groups in order to approach the enemy in a tactical manner like in real life. It will prevent the feeling as if players are on a racing track sprinting from one cap to another in order to gain a forward spawn like it's now in DH.

It's really unnecessary to even have capzones on the map - If there are towns/hill or some suitable defending positions on the map then the players will sense themselves which are naturally the most suitable for them to defend.

And the most exciting thing is that feeling of suspense by grazing through the unknown fields with your squad, never knowing where the enemy could be. Once the contact with the enemy is established the fighting breaks out.

And this will cause players to form squads and rather go together with the squad leader using binoculars having much better chances of spotting the enemy than going solo wolfing.

And that's why this brings me to another issue.

Why in games squad leader's binoculars are so ineffective in conjunction with his squad. There must be proper functions made in next game to improve that.

Just look at this video below that I stumbled across. Btw I thought it's an epic example of a pretty good long range firefights which I find much more exciting than the usual cluster shooting on small maps RO2 style.

I would really love to see this sort of combat happening more often where players form squads and attack together in FE rather than the constant run'n'gun on every map..



But just see at around 6:30 how frustrating it is to tell someone of where exactly is the enemy...

The guy spends 1 or 2 minute trying to tell teammates that the guy is on the roof on the right and by the time pretty much half the team is dead and that is because of lack of features in the game that are easy to use.

So I really hope with today's more modern use of engine and new supply of tools, the devs can pull of a pretty smart system of giving positional information swiftly.

Then there is the problem on pub servers with players of many nationalities like spanish,french,italian etc.

It must not stop them from working together and being able to tell where's the enemy or places to go (if you're a leader) even if you can't use the mic.

There should be simple and effective to use signs that are just within a click of a button for other players to see.

Thanks for listening



#2 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 05:19 PM

You have some very good points.  If FE goes with handheld maps that can be 'sketched' on, I can see a 'report' action, where anything that isn't on the map already (e.g. buildings, hedges, burned out vehicles, etc.) is 'reported to HQ', and is drawn on all teammates maps, including enemy positions.  (Something like the BF system to spot enemies, only made more realistic.)  The DH1 maps that work best are the ones that have silhouettes of buildings on them, and uses the '1A1' map division system from DH1, to allow precise reporting.  Even if sketchable maps aren't implemented, it wouldn't be difficult to code a function where, when a player points at something and chooses options from a radial(?) menu, a text message is generated that says something like "Multiple enemy infantry spotted in the building at 5E7.", which is exactly what can be said using VOIP/text.  (i.e. it isn't really adding anything new, just making what is already done quicker and easier.)


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#3 SilentAssassin

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 12:30 AM

How about a system that allows you to have a mobile HQ.  As an example, let's say there are transport halftracks and then an HQ halftrack with radio equipment and such.  You could have the HQ halftracks' driver seats locked to anybody else except for commanders, squad leaders, etc.  A command unit can drive the HQ halftrack and deploy it anywhere on the map.  This will convert the halftrack into a stationary forward operating base, which will create a dynamic spawn point for the enemy to destroy, unless they want to allow the enemy team to keep respawing from it.  It might be a little gamey, but tell me what you guys think.  I got the idea from the similar FOB system in Battlefield: Project Reality.



#4 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 14 October 2015 - 04:55 AM

How about a system that allows you to have a mobile HQ.  As an example, let's say there are transport halftracks and then an HQ halftrack with radio equipment and such.  You could have the HQ halftracks' driver seats locked to anybody else except for commanders, squad leaders, etc.  A command unit can drive the HQ halftrack and deploy it anywhere on the map.  This will convert the halftrack into a stationary forward operating base, which will create a dynamic spawn point for the enemy to destroy, unless they want to allow the enemy team to keep respawing from it.  It might be a little gamey, but tell me what you guys think.  I got the idea from the similar FOB system in Battlefield: Project Reality.

That is what the 29th came up with for DH1, where only certain classes could drive the MDV's.  It works well, as long as you don't get foolish players in those slots.


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#5 Kashash

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 01:54 PM

You're right that MDV is too gamey.

 

MDV which would work on domination maps such as Lutremange, is really detrimental on maps that are attack/defense style (that is most of the maps).

 

It is really unfavourable and undesirable for the sake of gameplay to have the mobile HQ in form of a vehicle rather than designed being on foot where squad leaders actually have to set them up.

 

Not only from the realistic point of view, in real life you couldn't just transport more than 10 men across a battlefield and magically spawn a whole dozen of them.

 

It was also nearly impossible to bypass the whole frontline of defensive positions, sneak behind and start pouring troops into it. (that's what it most of the time happens on maps with MDVs on players trying to avoid these positions by just driving around and that makes the map into a sort of racing style combination of driving and tanking rather than a real sense of infantry advancing from cover to cover and slowly gaining the ground inch by inch).

 

That's what gets it into a chaos on maps with MDVs. What happens is either they're trying to be evading enemies defending positions by circling around them and spawning behind their objective or get blown up on the way by an enemy tank.

 

Having spawn points as forward bases that can be set up/build aka in Squad game or Project reality, reduces this sort of realistic occurence where the attacking team just drives behind enemy lines and spawns there or getting blown up all the time and driving all the way back all over again.

 

That's one reason, another one is that it turns attack/defense maps into a race maps, whoever gets to the newly activated objective first he forfeits it before the enemy can snatch it thus seeing completely no combat just like here on the screenshot I managed to drive to the Cattle Ranch and spawn troops into it before the enemy could even get there.

 

aKUt5y4.jpg

 

So that is the reason it spoils the idea of attack/defense style maps, in real life you couldn't just bypass the whole battle frontline well defending positions and spawn troops more than what the actual capacity of the vehicle was capable of carrying.

 

Now I don't want for this to come off as harsh or anything, it's all based on behalf of the player's I have encountered in the game and how people feel about it. It was a great attempt at trying to give DH a bit more maneuverability and I think it would be fun on Domination maps where you have objectives in the middle of the map to be held for as long as possible like on Lutremange but it's an excess on other maps that are Attack/Defense style for the reasons mentioned above.



#6 TT33

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 04:59 PM

You're right that MDV is too gamey.
 MDV which would work on domination maps such as Lutremange, is really detrimental on maps that are attack/defense style (that is most of the maps).
Not only from the realistic point of view, in real life you couldn't just transport more than 10 men across a battlefield and magically spawn a whole dozen of them.

First the Sdkfz 251 and US HT should have a full crew of 12 not 10.

I always liked the concept of the mdv but I disliked the fact that it would continue to dump an unlimited amount of players on the battlefield like McDonald dumpster spawns roaches. I think the best way to have the mdv is to apply the feature to all HT's and then apply a spawn limit of only 1 squad of people (12 people) and that's it. That way there is a temporary quick forward spawn that will only dump 12 people in a given place at a time (the very thing HTs are supposed to do) and then HT's will then never be taken or driven with only 1 person in them due to the temporary spawn without the ridiculousness that comes with the MDV spawning the entire team somewhere.
  I suppose some other features could be implemented in there such as a reactivation of the spawn if you drive to spawn zone, limited munition, limited gear carrier,etc.

In FE  will have a squad system (I hope I'm not giving stuff away) so we could counter the lone HT driver issue and having the correct number of people in an HT just by assigning a squad to an HT and have the squad spawn in the vehicle at the start of the match.


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#7 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 06:31 PM

One thing about having MDV's driven by bots is that, once their max capacity has disembarked, they can drive back to {wherever}, 'pickup' another load, then drive back to the dropoff point.


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#8 Kashash

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Posted 15 October 2015 - 10:41 PM

Yes I'm aware the 12 full crew, I just rounded up the number to 10 and to what I imagine is feasible in game since in RO1 you could only have 6 in passenger seats (but if you can have 12 in FE then great).

 

And yes that makes more sense to have the limit of max 12 players spawning out of the halftrack. In DH it would often abuse the gameplay anyway by hiding the vehicle in a such a spot that the enemy would never find it and thus constantly pouring new troops onto battlefield.


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#9 Twrecks

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 12:00 AM

I'd be happy if you could order bots to "mount up!".  Otherwise it's back to herding cats. Regarding moble spawn points, uh... no thanks.



#10 'DeadlyDad' Olson

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Posted 16 October 2015 - 02:14 AM

I'd be happy if you could order bots to "mount up!".  Otherwise it's back to herding cats. Regarding moble spawn points, uh... no thanks.

Ummm...  What?


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