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Respawn on Squad Leader


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#1 SilentAssassin

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 09:42 PM

Is there going to be a respawn on squad leader function in this game like RO2 or Verdun? I'm not really for the idea because I believe that it doesn't work the way it's intended. 

 

The function of a squad leader should be to coordinate a squad to take and defend positions.  In RO2 or Verdun, I have seen players tell their squad leaders to hide near the objective or in a ditch near the objective so that they can use the player as a mobile reinforce point.

 

To me, this is a waste of the submachine guns/other weapons that they got in their respective games and it really takes them away from their actual role.  It is also really frustrating when your squad rages at you for trying to take an objective and you end up getting shot in the process. I know the function of this is to keep a squad together, but I believe it results in the squad leader role being turned into a mobile respawn point role.

 

I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on the topic.



#2 Theel

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 10:40 PM

Spawning on the SL and spawning on a point setup by the squad are two very different things.  This should be made clear from the get-go. 

 

Now as for spawning directly on the SL, the only way I see this working is if the SL is nearby another squad's "rally station" or whatever.  This way a squad can use another squad's rally station, but only if their SL is there.  (this allows squad A to defend squad B's station).  However I don't see the point of this except to offer more power from a single SRP (squad rally point/station).  It does offer some squad to squad collaboration, which can make things more interesting at a platoon level.


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#3 Spindle

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 10:42 PM

Boy, this is a tough one.

 

On the one hand you don't want to have a long respawn time and also have to walk for a long time before you reach the objective/combat zone.

On the other hand it's quite infuriating and unfair that your squadmembers spawn near you while in combat with the enemy.

 

It's quite tricky to balance them both.

 

I personally think that halftracks are a good mobile spawnpoint, but it must be limited in range.


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#4 SilentAssassin

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:40 AM

Spawning on the SL and spawning on a point setup by the squad are two very different things.  This should be made clear from the get-go. 

 

Now as for spawning directly on the SL, the only way I see this working is if the SL is nearby another squad's "rally station" or whatever.  This way a squad can use another squad's rally station, but only if their SL is there.  (this allows squad A to defend squad B's station).  However I don't see the point of this except to offer more power from a single SRP (squad rally point/station).  It does offer some squad to squad collaboration, which can make things more interesting at a platoon level.

 

I like your idea of a squad "rally station". It kind of reminds me of the FOBs in Project Reality. It could work and make other players use the squad leader as a squad leader instead of a magic SL spawn.

 

 

Boy, this is a tough one.

 

On the one hand you don't want to have a long respawn time and also have to walk for a long time before you reach the objective/combat zone.

On the other hand it's quite infuriating and unfair that your squadmembers spawn near you while in combat with the enemy.

 

It's quite tricky to balance them both.

 

I personally think that halftracks are a good mobile spawnpoint, but it must be limited in range.

 

I like the halftrack system too.  As long as people don't use the squad leader like some magical spawn point and have him sit behind cover the whole time, then I'm fine with it.  I do see this as a tricky issue to fix for the reasons you stated though.



#5 Kashash

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 03:52 PM

No, not right on SquadLeader like in RO2 which was a screw-up. However take a look at Squad game, there is virtually no static spawns except for the main base. Squads then at the beginning move out of that base and while on they're move, SquadLeaders communicating with each other on the SL channel, while informing each SL and their squadmates of their plans and directions they're going to take and which objectives they are going to capture on a massive map and places where they're going to set up their rallies/fobs which are a form of this flexible spawn system. It really makes the whole thing more exciting and battles more dynamic rather than the old fixed spawn system where it activates one after another when the objective is capped. That tends to stall the battlefield to one place and create a constant wave-run syndrome. Not only that but most of the levels are done so that you can win as an attacker even if you don't capture all of the objectives on the map. It's how many enemies you kill and the more objectives you've captured the more is penalizing enemy's tickets that defines your victory.

Furthermore, once you have this system where you're able to "establish" spawn points as rallies/fobs on the map as a SL with the help of 2 or 3 squad members, you don't really need to have halftracks as spawnpoints. If you jump out of the halftrack and set up a spawn point it's either the same thing. Not only that but it is much superior. Spawning on halftrack tends to create too many griefing occurences, a halftrack attempting to drive and so often blowing up the whole squad in it before it even gets there. Tends to make battles into silly driving all over the map behind enemy lines too easy as well. By having a SL setting up rally points with his squad, ensures the battle progresses at a slow pace and doesn't bypass the whole frontline at once, but works hard to slowly moves through the enemy positions and establishing the spawn points along the way.

 

This is the most exciting way because if the situation gets pretty hot in there, you and your squad has to get out of there due to losing too many men, the Squad Leader can quickly tell squadmates to fall back and set up a rally point in the back safe position. You're not just fixed to one place anymore where you spawn - run - die - repeat like it has been in the game we've all played so far up to now. It is a much more huge opportunistic and way more unpredictable and organic way of fighting a battle.

 

 

Spawning on the SL and spawning on a point setup by the squad are two very different things.  This should be made clear from the get-go.

 

Yes this should be highlighted so that they're not confused as they are two very different things


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#6 5th SS Div Wiking

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 11:17 AM

In my opinion the current DH MBV system is pure perfection.



#7 Kashash

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Posted 31 March 2016 - 05:33 PM

I have experienced this many times playing with mdvs and as I've just got out of game as an example I thought I'll post here some of these severe "inconsistencies" with mdvs and how detrimental they are for the gameplay, to hopefully try to convince anyone that the rally point is a better way of advancing with your squads rather than a whole squad's fate being relied upon some overly-brave driver that uses the mdv halftrack as a "taxi" to get to the objective and as a result being blown up while being on the way to the objective.

Our team safely held the Cattle Ranch, seemed as if enemy had absolutely no chance getting close to it since we've destroyed multiple enemy tanks and their mdvs trying to get closer. So after that seeing no enemies approaching us we slightly moved ahead of the Cattle Ranch to push the enemy out of the objective.

 

0XxKflF.jpg

 

Few moments later our objective is suddenly being capped by the enemies that drove their mdv halftrack through the map ninja-style.

PwNePp9.jpg

 

Even at 50 vs 50 there's a whole lot of room and terrain for halftracks to roam about the map and sneak through. If that the halftracks were driven so blatantly right into the enemy strongholds (which are objectives in DH game) 99% of such attempts would fail in being blown up by enemy tank/gun/panzerschreck etc.

In game you have far less soldiers covering the areas of the map than what it represents in real life. Where you have all at the same time defensive positions of forward with say some 100 men, then you have another 100 men in the back lines, then 50 on each flank and even more further back in the reserves etc etc.

Because of that halftracks being used as spawnpoints just doesn't work in game.

A typical example looks like this video at 2:15. A halftrack being brazenly driven right through the enemy lines trying to get to the objective and killing everyone inside. ->



With the rally point system, which hopefully will be added, rather than looping around the map and easily avoiding enemy's defensive positions easily, the gameplay will involve a lot more facing with the enemy and having to confront them rather than driving right past them. It'll be more about actual advancing through the terrain and securing that terrain first in order to reach the objective. As far as for the defense, it'll be a lot more important for the defenders to maintain a strategically advantageous parts of terrain in order to stop the enemy advancing through.

This will require a lot more crucial cooperation and teamwork among the squads in order to reach their goals/objectives. Not like it's now when one guy can drive through behing enemy lines ninja-style.

 

Each rally could be set up with say some 100m as a minimum distance from one another so that when one of the rally points get compromised by the enemy then the squad could then spawn on the previous one to tackle the enemy by either counterattack or in case of a Squad Leader's decision to fall back they could just set up defensive position and wait for the enemy to come in order to drain their reinforcement's tickets.

With mdvs however your whole route of attack is lost once it gets blown up. Rally points don't "die out" just because a lonely sitting tank picked out your spawn point. If it does gets engaged by the enemy then you would be able to spawn back safely at the previous rally point in order to regroup with your squad.

So this is why rally points are a far better mobile spawnpoint system. Battles with the rally point system are a lot more fluid. They don't jump suddenly from one point to another like it's with halftracks. A lot more careful maneuvering is involved rather than simple driving to the capzone. As an example below of a typical game with mdvs, after the enemy sneakly capped our Cattle Ranch behind our backs, he then simply drove the mdv into an undefended Honnopel and got there first before us and thus easily capping it as well as the next objectives (Roadhouse and Bridge).

 

UjBSHoi.jpg
 


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#8 Sgt.Elly {1st ID}

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 09:04 AM

I agree with Kashash, seeing MDV's being a bigger part of maps in DH has really led me to dislike them. It just feels really gamey, having to put them in certain safe positions, troops continously spawning, interjecting the whole team behind defense lines, not being able to use them as a base of fire, panzerjager's becoming mdvjager's, etc. They change the whole dynamic of the battlefield and it becomes really asymmetrical and a lot of times it feels like a partisan hunt.

 

One of the things I liked about Lutremange was that teams had to mount assaults and come in in force or set up a defense, but that's sort of been taken away with MDV's and it's much more just trickling into objectives (Objectives being a whole other problem imo).

 

Given FE is being built from the ground up it would be better to have new and better systems.


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